Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:57:22 -0600
To: AM-GLOBAL
From: "Punya'tman Deva"
Subject: Idiot Orator Ruined Prout Conference
Baba
Specifically, at the recent Prout conference in Lucknow, one of the heralded speakers refused to pay respect to our Revered Guru, Lord Shrii Shrii Anandamurtiji, the Propounder of Prout. In that case how could such a speaker properly put forth the ideals and aims of Prout - indeed, he could not.
Thus there was a double-loss. Firstly, the audience witnessed that the chief orator did not have respect for Baba, in which case they wondered why should they have respect for Baba; secondly, the audience listened as the chief orator spoke against Prout by putting forth his own philosophy, in which case they wondered why should they have interest in Prout. Hence it was a double loss.
Please read more about this fateful incident and review what we can do differently to ensure such a blunder never happens again.
Here is the eye-witness report of the events which transpired at the Prout conference in Lucknow - June 26, 2011 - when that idiot was invited to be a guest speaker.
Recently, one PROUT seminar was organized at Lucknow on 26th June where Shri SARPV Chaturvedi Swamy (Trustee Shri Ramanuj mission) was invited as Chief Orator on PROUT. He - along with a few eminent guests - was invited to be on the dais. In the beginning of seminar, all guests (sitting on dais) were requested to come and offer flowers to Baba.
When Shri Chaturvedi was requested to offer a flower to Baba, he did not move and ignored the request. He was once again requested. Shri Chaturvedi Swamy ignored the third request as well. The offer was meant as just formality for guests - they were not requested to do sastaunga pranam and accept Baba as the Sadguru. Just they were requested to offer a flower to Baba. This is the common tradition here in India. It is no different from clapping or standing up to greet a person in other regions. At every conference or convention - regardless of the organisation hosting the event - it is the norm for the invited speakers to pay their respects to the propounder or founder.
But Shri Chaturvedi did not offer a flower to Baba. He refused and remained seated. The audience clearly understood the intention of Shri Swamy. It was the height of humiliation. Shri Chaturvedi Swamy then delivered a lecture which was against PROUT. He propagated his own strategy and termed his philosophy as being better than PROUT.
Note: We should never let such a debacle occur at one of our Prout conferences or at any Ananda Marga function ever again.
To: AM-GLOBAL
From: "Punya'tman Deva"
Subject: Idiot Orator Ruined Prout Conference
Baba
== IDIOT ORATOR RUINED PROUT CONFERENCE ==
Here is a critical example of why our Prout philosophy is not being effectively propagated to the masses in this present era. Namaskar,
Specifically, at the recent Prout conference in Lucknow, one of the heralded speakers refused to pay respect to our Revered Guru, Lord Shrii Shrii Anandamurtiji, the Propounder of Prout. In that case how could such a speaker properly put forth the ideals and aims of Prout - indeed, he could not.
Thus there was a double-loss. Firstly, the audience witnessed that the chief orator did not have respect for Baba, in which case they wondered why should they have respect for Baba; secondly, the audience listened as the chief orator spoke against Prout by putting forth his own philosophy, in which case they wondered why should they have interest in Prout. Hence it was a double loss.
Please read more about this fateful incident and review what we can do differently to ensure such a blunder never happens again.
COMMON HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY
Punya'tmanIt is the common human psychology that if you want to learn something or if you think a particular idea or book is good, then you will have respect for the teacher, thinker, or author. That is the way it works.
This is not a religious edict or a dogmatic sermon, but rather an expression of human feeling. Just see these example from popular culture:
a) Michael Jackson: He had fans all over the globe who enjoyed his music that is why at the time of his passing 2 years ago, his memorial service exceeded 2.5 billion viewers via the internet, and 31.1. million people watched it live. Because they like his music they continue to adore him to this very day as hoards of people from all over the world just recently congregated to honour the 2nd anniversary of his death.
b) Harry Potter: The Harry Potter book series and movies have become legendary in the general society. The recently released movie passed the 1 billion dollar mark in just two weeks. All the characters are stars. Because people are so captivated by these books and movies, they totally adore the author JK Rowling. They hold her in the highest regard.
c) Lady Gaga & U2: Both Lady Gaga and U2 are extremely celebrated in the pop music industry. Their tours attract hundreds of millions of dollars. The people really like their music. And indeed if Lady Gaga or the the member of U2 go out in public, then immediately huge crowds of people want to see and touch them.
Here the entire point is that when people like your body of work, then they will revere you as well. That is the very common human tendency. Here are more examples.
d) Michael Jordan: Everyone wanted to see him play basketball and still today he remains a world-famous celebrity. People want to take his picture and shake his hand wherever he goes.
e) Amy Winehouse: The 27 year-old British singer died last week and a huge crowd gathered outside her house and were singing in her courtyard. Because they liked her music they adored her as well.
This is not to say that I appreciate the pop music or books created by these icons etc. Just it is important to emphasize that when people appreciate someone's work or contributions, then they will adore that person as well. That is the rule.
Thus if you appreciate crude things then you will adore crude people and if you appreciate sentient things then you will adore good people. That is the human way. This happens in all fields of life: Pop music, sports, academics, politics, and more.
If anyone admires the work, teachings, or achievements of a particular artist or athlete etc, then they must have respect and adoration for that person as well. Because of this well-known and proven formula, advertisers pay huge money and use those famous people to sell their wares. The common people revere them so much that they will buy products endorsed by those famous pop icons as well.
This formula works in every sphere of life: If a person likes the design of an automobile, then they will have regard for that automotive engineer. If a person likes a particular film, they will have regard for the producer. And if a person has regard for a physics experiment, they will have respect for the physicist. That is the common human tendency.
How does all this relate with the recent Prout conference? Well, one of the chosen speakers did not have respect for Baba and would not offer Baba a flower, thus it is clear that this same speaker did not have appreciation for Baba's Prout teachings. For if he liked the teachings of Prout he would have adored Baba as well.
If one is a student getting a university degree then they must have regard for their professors otherwise they will not be able to learn. If one is an athlete on a team then they must have regard for their coach, otherwise they will not be able to develop as a player. And if one is a sadhaka, then one must have utmost reverence for their Guru, otherwise they will never be able to progress on the path.
In any and all spheres of life, to gain success there must be deep reverence for the teacher or propounder.
In contrast, if there is a blatant lack of respect, then one cannot learn or advance in that arena - whether it be law school, basketball, engineering, or sadhana.
This is not a religious edict or a dogmatic sermon, but rather an expression of human feeling. Just see these example from popular culture:
a) Michael Jackson: He had fans all over the globe who enjoyed his music that is why at the time of his passing 2 years ago, his memorial service exceeded 2.5 billion viewers via the internet, and 31.1. million people watched it live. Because they like his music they continue to adore him to this very day as hoards of people from all over the world just recently congregated to honour the 2nd anniversary of his death.
b) Harry Potter: The Harry Potter book series and movies have become legendary in the general society. The recently released movie passed the 1 billion dollar mark in just two weeks. All the characters are stars. Because people are so captivated by these books and movies, they totally adore the author JK Rowling. They hold her in the highest regard.
c) Lady Gaga & U2: Both Lady Gaga and U2 are extremely celebrated in the pop music industry. Their tours attract hundreds of millions of dollars. The people really like their music. And indeed if Lady Gaga or the the member of U2 go out in public, then immediately huge crowds of people want to see and touch them.
Here the entire point is that when people like your body of work, then they will revere you as well. That is the very common human tendency. Here are more examples.
d) Michael Jordan: Everyone wanted to see him play basketball and still today he remains a world-famous celebrity. People want to take his picture and shake his hand wherever he goes.
e) Amy Winehouse: The 27 year-old British singer died last week and a huge crowd gathered outside her house and were singing in her courtyard. Because they liked her music they adored her as well.
This is not to say that I appreciate the pop music or books created by these icons etc. Just it is important to emphasize that when people appreciate someone's work or contributions, then they will adore that person as well. That is the rule.
Thus if you appreciate crude things then you will adore crude people and if you appreciate sentient things then you will adore good people. That is the human way. This happens in all fields of life: Pop music, sports, academics, politics, and more.
If anyone admires the work, teachings, or achievements of a particular artist or athlete etc, then they must have respect and adoration for that person as well. Because of this well-known and proven formula, advertisers pay huge money and use those famous people to sell their wares. The common people revere them so much that they will buy products endorsed by those famous pop icons as well.
This formula works in every sphere of life: If a person likes the design of an automobile, then they will have regard for that automotive engineer. If a person likes a particular film, they will have regard for the producer. And if a person has regard for a physics experiment, they will have respect for the physicist. That is the common human tendency.
How does all this relate with the recent Prout conference? Well, one of the chosen speakers did not have respect for Baba and would not offer Baba a flower, thus it is clear that this same speaker did not have appreciation for Baba's Prout teachings. For if he liked the teachings of Prout he would have adored Baba as well.
SECRETS OF SUCCESS
We must also keep in mind Baba's teachings on the "Seven Secrets of Success". In the second and third principles - shraddha' & guru pujanam - Baba emphasizes the importance of having the highest regard and reverence for the teacher or Preceptor - on all levels of life. If one is a student getting a university degree then they must have regard for their professors otherwise they will not be able to learn. If one is an athlete on a team then they must have regard for their coach, otherwise they will not be able to develop as a player. And if one is a sadhaka, then one must have utmost reverence for their Guru, otherwise they will never be able to progress on the path.
In any and all spheres of life, to gain success there must be deep reverence for the teacher or propounder.
In contrast, if there is a blatant lack of respect, then one cannot learn or advance in that arena - whether it be law school, basketball, engineering, or sadhana.
WHAT HAPPENED IN LUCKNOW
At a recent Prout conference in Lucknow, one of the invited speakers refused to offer a flower to Baba during the opening ceremony. All of the other esteemed orators gladly garlanded Baba's photo, but this particular orator refused. Yet here he was to speak on the point of Prout to one and all - and Baba Himself is the Propounder of Prout - so it was only natural to pay respect to Baba. But this idiot orator refused.
Here it should be pointed out that in India's tantric tradition, offering a flower or garland to a revered person or host is very common. This is not a radical gesture. It is as common as offering a handshake in the west or offering applause by clapping. So it was not like the conference organisers were asking that orator to do sastaunga pranam and accept Baba as Parama Purusa incarnate. All that was requested was a very ordinary gesture of respect or appreciation - nothing more. And that idiot speaker refused.
That should have been enough of a clue to the organisers (i.e. our Dadas etc) that this so-called orator was unfit to speak on the platform of Prout. Because if he does not respect Baba then certainly he cannot appreciate Prout. Or we can say, if he liked the teachings of Prout then certainly he would have had admiration for Baba and would have offered a flower.
But he refused.
Unfortunately the organisers let him speak, and the whole affair became even more sour as this idiot orator propagated his own philosophy at our own Prout conference.
If a similar sort of scene had unfolded in any other host's meeting whether it be the Catholic church, the Divine Life Society, or the Republican party (USA), then the organisers would have yanked that person off of the stage - immediately. Unfortunately, that did not happen during the recent Prout conference in Lucknow. The idiot orator was allowed to remain on stage lecture, thereby insulting Baba, and going against Prout. The whole affair was ugly.
When such events take place, it should come as no surprise that our Prout movement is in state of stagnancy. Or we can say if our Prout conferences were up to the proper standard, then our Proutist Universal movement would be growing far more quickly.
Suffice to say here that the invited orator is an idiot and those organisers who allowed him to remain on the stage and speak are also idiots.
Note: For more about what transpired see the eye-witness account posted below in note 1.
Here it should be pointed out that in India's tantric tradition, offering a flower or garland to a revered person or host is very common. This is not a radical gesture. It is as common as offering a handshake in the west or offering applause by clapping. So it was not like the conference organisers were asking that orator to do sastaunga pranam and accept Baba as Parama Purusa incarnate. All that was requested was a very ordinary gesture of respect or appreciation - nothing more. And that idiot speaker refused.
That should have been enough of a clue to the organisers (i.e. our Dadas etc) that this so-called orator was unfit to speak on the platform of Prout. Because if he does not respect Baba then certainly he cannot appreciate Prout. Or we can say, if he liked the teachings of Prout then certainly he would have had admiration for Baba and would have offered a flower.
But he refused.
Unfortunately the organisers let him speak, and the whole affair became even more sour as this idiot orator propagated his own philosophy at our own Prout conference.
If a similar sort of scene had unfolded in any other host's meeting whether it be the Catholic church, the Divine Life Society, or the Republican party (USA), then the organisers would have yanked that person off of the stage - immediately. Unfortunately, that did not happen during the recent Prout conference in Lucknow. The idiot orator was allowed to remain on stage lecture, thereby insulting Baba, and going against Prout. The whole affair was ugly.
When such events take place, it should come as no surprise that our Prout movement is in state of stagnancy. Or we can say if our Prout conferences were up to the proper standard, then our Proutist Universal movement would be growing far more quickly.
Suffice to say here that the invited orator is an idiot and those organisers who allowed him to remain on the stage and speak are also idiots.
Note: For more about what transpired see the eye-witness account posted below in note 1.
PROPER CRITERIA NEEDED
Here we should set down clear-cut guidelines for who is entitled to speak publicly on the platform of Prout. In essence, there are two fundamental criteria:
1. The speaker should be an active proponent of Prout;
2. The speaker should have deep regard for Baba as a great social thinker. (Note: This reverence should come from within the core of their heart and not just be imposed externally.)
These are the two minimum requirements for anyone to be allowed to speak publicly on the stage for Prout. And indeed these two points are inter-linked. Those who propagate Prout will naturally have respect for Baba; and those who revere Baba will naturally embrace His teachings like Prout. We should ensure that those speaking on behalf of Prout have both of these qualities. Then certainly every Prout conference will be a success.
And if for some reason we cannot find a good candidate from the general society, then let any Ananda Margii prepare a talk and come up and speak. That is also proper.
One other point to keep in mind. The speaker need not be famous; rather they should know Prout and have regard for Baba. Inviting a famous person who is not an advocate of Prout will undermine our entire Prout conference.
Indeed back in the 1990's (1991 - 1999) when the various groups were regularly hosting "Jubilees" then this same nonsense was going on. They were inviting famous professors and orators up on the stage without properly considering their background.
All those groupists were looking for was fame & popularity, not whether the speakers had interest in Prout and AM ideals nor whether those speakers had respect for Baba. Needless to say, those groupist jubilees became a total mess. The "honoured guests" would get up on stage and say all kinds things that were contrary to Baba's teachings and in the process they would insult Baba as well. This was the common trend.
But because those groupists were infatuated with selecting famous scholars who in truth had no feeling or interest for AM, this jubilee program was going on. We can all breathe a sigh of relief that such Jubilees have since been discontinued. If you know of one going on please let us know.
No one should forget the history of this jubliee program. Those who are 25 years-old and strong margiis today should also be aware of this fact.
Tragically, it seems that the organisers of the Lucknow Prout conference did not learn their lesson from these awful jubilee programs.
1. The speaker should be an active proponent of Prout;
2. The speaker should have deep regard for Baba as a great social thinker. (Note: This reverence should come from within the core of their heart and not just be imposed externally.)
These are the two minimum requirements for anyone to be allowed to speak publicly on the stage for Prout. And indeed these two points are inter-linked. Those who propagate Prout will naturally have respect for Baba; and those who revere Baba will naturally embrace His teachings like Prout. We should ensure that those speaking on behalf of Prout have both of these qualities. Then certainly every Prout conference will be a success.
And if for some reason we cannot find a good candidate from the general society, then let any Ananda Margii prepare a talk and come up and speak. That is also proper.
One other point to keep in mind. The speaker need not be famous; rather they should know Prout and have regard for Baba. Inviting a famous person who is not an advocate of Prout will undermine our entire Prout conference.
REMEMBER THOSE JUBILEES
Indeed back in the 1990's (1991 - 1999) when the various groups were regularly hosting "Jubilees" then this same nonsense was going on. They were inviting famous professors and orators up on the stage without properly considering their background.
All those groupists were looking for was fame & popularity, not whether the speakers had interest in Prout and AM ideals nor whether those speakers had respect for Baba. Needless to say, those groupist jubilees became a total mess. The "honoured guests" would get up on stage and say all kinds things that were contrary to Baba's teachings and in the process they would insult Baba as well. This was the common trend.
But because those groupists were infatuated with selecting famous scholars who in truth had no feeling or interest for AM, this jubilee program was going on. We can all breathe a sigh of relief that such Jubilees have since been discontinued. If you know of one going on please let us know.
No one should forget the history of this jubliee program. Those who are 25 years-old and strong margiis today should also be aware of this fact.
Tragically, it seems that the organisers of the Lucknow Prout conference did not learn their lesson from these awful jubilee programs.
JUST LIKE STIRRING YOUR FOOD WITH POISON OAK
Namaskar, Bringing an idiot orator who has no interest in Prout and no respect for Baba onto the Prout platform is akin to going camping and using a twig of poison oak to stir your dinner. The meal will get totally spoiled. And that is exactly happened with the Prout conference in Lucknow by using an idiot orator. The conference was ruined. Really those who invited such an orator are also idiots.
Who will such organisers invite next time to speak about Prout - the ghost of Stalin? Best will be if all learn their lesson now and keep the stage of our Prout conferences proper.
The point being that when embarking on any endeavour one should know have proper knowledge and move in the right direction.
Who will such organisers invite next time to speak about Prout - the ghost of Stalin? Best will be if all learn their lesson now and keep the stage of our Prout conferences proper.
The point being that when embarking on any endeavour one should know have proper knowledge and move in the right direction.
BABA'S BLESSING
By selecting persons, who truly revere Baba and have interest in Prout, to speak at our Prout conferences, the propagation of Prout will rapidly increase. So we should all be vigilant on this point.
Baba says, "We are waiting for the rising sun with crimson rays. Even now the crimson rays are a bit visible. These crimson rays are the rays of PROUT." (Prout Nutshell - 17, Suppression, Repression and Oppression)
Note 1: EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT OF THE LUCKNOW PROUT CONFERENCE
Here is the eye-witness report of the events which transpired at the Prout conference in Lucknow - June 26, 2011 - when that idiot was invited to be a guest speaker.
Recently, one PROUT seminar was organized at Lucknow on 26th June where Shri SARPV Chaturvedi Swamy (Trustee Shri Ramanuj mission) was invited as Chief Orator on PROUT. He - along with a few eminent guests - was invited to be on the dais. In the beginning of seminar, all guests (sitting on dais) were requested to come and offer flowers to Baba.
When Shri Chaturvedi was requested to offer a flower to Baba, he did not move and ignored the request. He was once again requested. Shri Chaturvedi Swamy ignored the third request as well. The offer was meant as just formality for guests - they were not requested to do sastaunga pranam and accept Baba as the Sadguru. Just they were requested to offer a flower to Baba. This is the common tradition here in India. It is no different from clapping or standing up to greet a person in other regions. At every conference or convention - regardless of the organisation hosting the event - it is the norm for the invited speakers to pay their respects to the propounder or founder.
But Shri Chaturvedi did not offer a flower to Baba. He refused and remained seated. The audience clearly understood the intention of Shri Swamy. It was the height of humiliation. Shri Chaturvedi Swamy then delivered a lecture which was against PROUT. He propagated his own strategy and termed his philosophy as being better than PROUT.
Note: We should never let such a debacle occur at one of our Prout conferences or at any Ananda Marga function ever again.
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